Relationship must haves. Part One Chemistry and Timing

Earlier in my Blog I intimated a relationship has three major requirements for success and longevity: chemistry, compatibility and timing.  

CHEMISTRY

Does the first, chemistry, need an introduction?  It is a term banded about on dating sites and between members, and for some people remains elusive.  Well let us go with what we know: we see a person to whom we are attracted.  The most obvious point of attraction is that we find their physical appearance attractive and this pleases us; in fact this information goes to our brain and triggers our pleasure signals.  Biologically we have undergone a release of hormones within our brain.  The chemical reaction has begun.  More often than not due to internet dating, this begins with a photograph; and this reaction goes to prove that looks are a very important aspect of attraction.  So, for those people who scream that taking looks into account is shallow, my advice is to stop fighting something that is perfectly natural.

Oh so many pics to choose from

We humans share these biological drives, these hormones which are released due to the sensory information, with our animal compatriots.  Procreation is the nature of the beast, so-to-speak.  In Bad Boys we saw the peacock attempting to seduce the peahen in a lavish visual display as part of his courtship; likewise birds sing to attract mates.  The chemical reaction may begin with one sense but is short-lived if other senses are not stimulating further chemical releases.  I am more than happy to state Johnny Depp’s face pleases me, and also that his accent warms the cockles of my heart (or perhaps another part of the body).  One sense may even overthrow the pleasure signals received from another, for example you may be attracted to a Marilyn Monroe look-alike blind-date but if you have an affinity for a subtle foreign accent and the woman opens her mouth and utters greetings like an Essex girl on speed, I would advise you not to cast lots on a relationship ensuing.

In humans we are aware that these drives have an individualised focus.  I have already touched upon visual attraction: we have universal beauty explained by the golden proportion and also my suggestion of personal facial geometry (in Be True To Yourself).  It kind of implies one man’s poison is another man’s elixir.  In the above paragraph, the example clearly shows what we hear has its importance also.  Following from that, what about smells?  There won’t be many adults in the land who haven’t heard of the word pheromones, for we are looking, or rather smelling beyond soap, shampoo and Eau de the-latest-celebrity-pong.  As a woman I am aware my pheromones alter throughout my menstrual cycle and I know they are more seductive during ovulation (and as a writer that is a pleasant way of stating that I smell stronger, in a good way, prior to menstruation).  As for you sweaty men instigating the odd whiffy attraction perhaps you should take a peak here so that you are not tempted to go overboard in the stale odour stakes.

Before leaving the subject of the use of our senses in relation to chemistry, I would like to share this article.  It would appear male rodents are using song to attract mates and these songs start when the rodents come up against the pheromones in the urine of females.  So Ladies, the next time you’re tempted to urinate in the great outdoors because you cannot reach the lavatory in time, you may find some strange guy comes up to you and starts serenading you.

TIMING

I shall bypass compatibility temporarily and jump straight to timing.  In our lifetime we may meet up with a person with whom each sense is fully sated.  In other words we each receive a glut of signals which in turn releases chemicals and a strong desire to copulate.  Throw compatibility into the mix and this relationship becomes more than just an instinctual desire to fuck or make love.  Unfortunately if the timing is poor then the potential for one of us walking off into the distance is high and possibly leaving devastation in our wake.

Timing is a concept that is often only recognised with regards to relationships, in its negative context.  Poor timing brings about the impairment of the ability to fully connect with another person in a deep and meaningful way due to some past or present event(s), such as the loss of a significant relationship, resulting in emotional turmoil in one’s life.  Other stresses and losses may compound this. - Michelle

The easiest way of showing the importance of poor timing is to give an example.  Imagine the scenario of two people in love.  The sex is spectacular, there are no body image issues between the pair and not only are they happy to wake up and find themselves occasionally snuggled into the other’s armpit, morning breath does not pose a problem.  The chemistry box is well and truly ticked.  We now move onto the couple’s compatibility.  Their level of intelligence is similar even though life may have taken them on totally different routes, and they also have a similar sense of humour.  These two are open-minded and liberal so no presence of political, racial or religious bigotry on either side will upset the apple cart, and both are eager to learn from the other.  As for personalities, these are either immediately compatible or have the potential to achieve compatibility.  Another box ticked.  So where is the problem? 

On the face of it there doesn’t appear to be one.  Then you see something starts to sneak between the two.  That something is fear.  The fear that something might or might not happen, and that fear is directly related to a past event.  The event is a relationship breakdown and acrimonious divorce.  Fear is not always tangible nor does it have to be conscious, so how can one deal with it?  If we have a phobia such as arachnophobia then we may choose avoidance by refusing to go into the arachnid and reptilian house at the zoo, or we may choose removal by asking another person to get rid of that huge monster of a spider which has just run across the lounge carpet (or the vacuum cleaner comes in mighty handy if there is no hero or heroine around).  Similarly, if we fear getting hurt emotionally because our last significant relationship caused immense emotional pain, do we choose avoidance (now a little difficult having found ourselves in the midst of a new significant relationship, which is the very reason for the fear arising) or do we rid ourselves of that relationship?  Would that not in itself produce hurt?  Or could we reduce emotional entanglement?

The latter is chosen on a subconscious level.  Let us suppose it is the female on the receiving end of her partner’s fear, her own behaviour is very likely to be affected.  One minute the couple is connecting on a very deep level and she feels secure, but the next, the barriers are up and her lover is psychologically pushing her away or holding her at arms’ length.  Her behaviour may in turn mirror his as she now tries to protect herself from the arising fear SHE may get hurt.  Alternatively or additionally she may behave in a way she feels is protecting her lover and suppresses her own feelings, her own insecurities.  Her change in behaviour directly affects his and this increases his barriers.  Neither of the two are consciously breaking down the barriers and one of these two (if not both) is going to walk away and take that fear (or suppressed fear) into the next significant relationship. 

The saddest thing is that the potential for repairing this issue, for removing this fear, was high in this relationship.  As we go onto Part Two of Relationship Must Haves keep “the potential to repair” in mind as we now turn our attention to the subject of compatibility.

Bibiliography

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Books

Jung, The Key Ideas - Ruth Snowdon

I have been interested in psychology since before I began working for the good ol' NHS, and started my studies in an introduction to it 14-15 years ago (likewise sociology a year later).  For some undefined reason Carl Jung and I have never crossed paths until recently (not bad for a dead person).  Well I want to rave about this fascinating man for his ideas have created such a deep resonance in me due to my present spiritual journey and long-standing psychological interest.  Like most of us, I want to become the best person I can be, which involves my conscious and unconscious to walk hand in hand (ego and higher self, though Jung would state Self with the all-important capital S), and likewise to balance both the male and female aspects of myself, such as my logical rationale and emotional intuition.  Jung would class this as the individuation process and Buddhists would class this as the journey towards enlightenment.  Are labels necessary?  They are actually useful as a tool for comprehension rather than an authoritative definition.

So what does this book have to do with dating?  Did I say it did?  Actually it does and I'll quote directly from the last chapter, which I read today (18/4/12): "Jung argues that we cannot hope to relate well to others until we can see ourselves clearly... 'Relationship to the Self is at once relationship to our fellow man, and no-one can be related to the latter until he is related to himself.'" p177 Jung the visionary.



The Everything Hinduism Book - K Shouler, Ph.D., & S Anthony

At the end of 2011 I purchased a set of books giving an overview of the world's major religions.  Hinduism struck a chord with me due to how life has shaped, and continues to shape my belief system.  It left me wanting to know more.  I decided to read, not only to aid my own  journey in the search of enlightenment, but also with a view of seeking information that could benefit a Dater.   

Sexually, I'm more of of a Switzerland - David

A light-hearted look, due to actual personal ads, within the lonely hearts scene: a column of the London Review of Books.  If you have ever giggled at peoples' profiles on Internet Dating, it might be worth you taking a peek.  An on-line review.  The ads are annotated by the editor David Rose to remove the obliqueness of some of the highbrow content.  One such annotation regarding a certain train service had me in stitches for I cannot recall elsewhere in the book where a comment had such an underlying subjectiveness (with a direct comparison to faecal matter).

The most memorable content of any profile I have perused, and one which has been repeated, is the following:  "Intelligent man with a good sense of humour, likes blah blah blah, seeks same".  Misplaced under male seeks female perhaps?

You Kant Make It Up! - Gary Hayden.

In this book: You Kant Make It Up! Strange Ideas From History's Great Philosophers, Gary Hayden states this: philosophy concerns itself with ultimate questions.  So if you have ever perused such ideas as: "Why are we here?"; "Is there a God?"; and, "Is reality as we perceive it, real?", then you are embarking on the cornerstones of philosophy.  Gary recommends many books and I am following up a couple of his recommendations to give me a better understanding of both Eastern and Western philosophical ideas. 

Internet Articles

Codependency
The first time I heard this term was after the break-up of my relationship with F, so it would have been two-and-a-half years ago.  It was shocking to research a term and find I already "had the t-shirt".  Both S, my male friend, and I were in a place of pain and he shared this website with me to help.  Those of you not ready for information with a spiritual leaning may prefer an alternative link such as this counselling service.

I recognised myself in this paragraph from the above counselling site:
"Codependency causes us to become "enmeshed" within relationships, friendships, our jobs and roles and is accompanied by an exhausting tendency to want to "fix" people and things and to then be fixed. We become "rescuers" and "martyrs" and then directly or indirectly demand some kind of reward for our efforts. We become trapped by our need to be needed."  

Perhaps the above seems harsh but replace "demand for reward" for the ego's need for validation as it can be difficult to acknowledge a dysfunction, however mild or severe, acute or chronic it is; but when one does, one grows from that knowledge.  The following communication gives examples of the types of validation we seek, I sent it to one I love:

"The ego wants validation of being loved and expects it the way it wants it, according to your life experiences and needs.  The higher self does not need the love of others and therefore does not have that issue.  Try to look at validation (praise/confirmation of love/affirmation of being right) as a bonus to make you smile rather than see it (unconsciously perhaps) as a necessity."  The lesson was introduced as a concept by the above spiritual website but life's experience has only recently integrated this lesson into my life and I feel much healthier for it.  Consider it as a protection against manipulation - both the dealing of and receiving of it.

Golden Proportion 
Also known as Golden Ratio/Section/Mean, Divine Proportion and Golden Number Phi.  As I am writing this I am looking at this site: www.goldennumber.net.  The reason I have chosen to link this particular page is to direct you to scroll to the list of where phi appears.  It is apparent in the Universe, occurring naturally in human bodies, animals, nature, the solar system, sciences and in mankind creations of art, music, books and architecture.  Interestingly phi is used in facial plastic surgery.  So the secret is out, there is a universal formula to what attracts us.  In my Blog I extended this idea of the Golden Proportion to a personal facial geometry.  The idea is simple: where our faces deviate from the Golden Proportion we are drawn to those who reflect the same deviations.


Namaste
This is a new term to me and is the most beautiful of salutations I have yet come across.  I state it in response to one of the anonymous comments.  It is a literal translation of the Sanskrit word means I bow to you.  Gandhi is reputed to have defined it in a letter of response to Einstein as "I honour the place in you where the entire universe resides. I honour the place in you of light, love, truth, peace and wisdom. I honour the place in you where, when you are in that place, and I am in that place, there is only one of us."

Profile Howlers and Wowsers

Intentional Humour?

Your public awaits you and your almost perfect profile is ready to be unleashed, or is it?  Surely you would not compose and send off a Curriculum Vitae to a potential employer without checking it?  Well pay the same sort attention to detail on your profile and make sure your public is laughing WITH you as opposed to at you!

The moral of this chapter is to be aware of how your profile reads!  Sometimes it is simply incorrect punctuation which causes the howlers (and sometimes it is the reader's wicked imagination of which you have no control).

E from Cambridgeshire:

I am just as happy to stay in hold hands and watch TV. 

I imagine E is trying to imply he is tactile as opposed to actually sitting at home clasping his hands as he watches the television alone.

M from Huntingdon
Have a car: N/A

Am financially stable, got my own place, car and all the other trappings. 

Something does not quite match up.

L from Oxfordshire:

I'm looking for Mrs Right to share these things with.

I imagine L would like to meet a singleton and make her his Mrs as opposed to stealing another man's wife.
Likewise - D from Bishop's Stortford.

E from Essex

Looking for a sexy smile and good times together.

My sexy smile and I always have good times together... don't yours?

N from Spalding

Enjoy a good night out but equally as happy having a night in with a bottle of wine and quality time together.

I cannot imagine that N's intention is actually to have quality time with his bottle of wine.

R from Essex

I'm more of a comfortable traveller but I have been known to camp!

This is purely my twisted mind for I have images of John Inman.

L from Northamptonshire

Northants guy with own house and no ties seeks funny normal pretty lady for fun and friendship.

The picture of the guy does indeed show him without a tie... not sure he meant that though.

D from Milton Keynes

Just so I conform I like eating out real English beer motorbikes.

Is that a motorbike made from beer, and how does one eat it or perhaps out of it?

M from Bourne

I don't need to drink heavily to have a good time - most of the time I'm driving so stick to coke and orange juice.

Is coke and orange juice a good mix?  I can imagine the colour is gross.

N from Stofold

Dislikes- Marrow, what is the point of this vegetable?
Marrow has a point? No wonder he doesn't like it.

K from Luton

Looking for my Yin Yang

Is that the same as asking for a threesome or a he-she?

M from Bedford

I bring good things to a relationship

I wonder if that is like a dowry.  Certainly intriguing.


F from Pakistan

Status: not single, not looking

Intent: Dating!

H from Northampton

Profession: Proffesional

I liken this error to the self-professed "inteligent" person (AND I am ignoring the fact that a professional, unless you're Bodie or Doyle, is not a profession). 

J from Peterborough
Like eating out country side the beach love cliff tops walks.

That is such an unusual diet (oh it's lacking punctuation silly me).

B from Ely

Take her down are local for a slap up fish and chip meal.

There the danger lies spelling words how you pronounce them. 

C from Milton Keynes

Enjoys most things in life as lif is too short.

That typo or Freudian slip is rather humorous.

Photographic Faux Pas

N from Herts

Status: single 

Photo: with wedding ring!

H from Leamington Spa

Status: blond Caucasian

Photo: bald!

Hair colour for the mature male is often inaccurate.  Photos blatantly show salt and pepper or grey, not black/brown/blond.

S from Peterborough

Status: non-smoker

Photo: cigarette in hand!

S from Peterborough
Photo: of two men
No other pictures, so who is S?


Ladies from anywhere
Average body type
Photo: women's view of average seems to range from a size 10 to a size 20.  According to this article the average dress size in Britain is a size 16.  According to this article it was a size 14 in the year 2000 and a 12 a decade earlier.


Anyone from anywhere
The fun-seeking and cheerful members whose photos depict the opposite.

Other Surprises

B from Hertford

48

I am looking to start my own family

As a mother of five I am pretty maternal, even to this day.  My age, however, dictates my biological clock has run out (due to risks to a potential embryo/foetus).  Now this gentleman is one of a growing trend: already past middle-aged and wanting to start or extend a family.  If he sires with a younger woman the risk fore-mentioned is much less or negligible.  This makes him far more fortunate than a woman of his own age group, but surely other factors need to be taken into consideration, such as age and health?  Consider the father's age as the child grows up.  Chances are he will live to a ripe old age since demographically we are becoming a nation top heavy with elderly people, but will B still have reasonable health and how comparable will he be to other fathers of twenty to thirty years his junior?  A trite example perhaps, but would he be able to play football with his son in his teens, when he is in his sixties?  B will be a pensioner before he could take his child for her first legal drink.
B from Luton
49
Wants to extend his family


A from Coventry

Looking for real love. Someone I can call my mum, my soulmate, my sister and my lover

Okay is it me, or is this scary?  Can we just stick with the 'best friends' comments rather then include female relatives?

Markymark from anywhere

Is an extremely frequent user name.

N from Luton

My colleges at work say I am good looking kind caring and good fun,so who am i to disagree...?

I imagine N is not referring to those institutions for higher education, but in fact his colleagues.  I later found out his 12 year old daughter composed his profile.  N had her correct it when the error was pointed out.  I was later horrified to learn she may have communicated with a potential datee or two.  

Profile Wisdom 

E from King's Lynn

Sorry ladies, no pics, no can do! I just do not understand why so many women on here don't have a picture of themselves unless they have something to hide maybe??? If we are all honest deep down, it starts with the picture first, and then if you are not completely repulsed, then we read the profile to get to know a bit more. Don't shoot the messenger :) Just telling it as it is...

J from Nottingham

Why is it that people put as there main profile pictures where: 
They don't smile
Group photos
Distance shots
Pictures of animals!!!

M from Cambridge
Please accept my apologies if I don't reply, I do appreciate any message, but I don't wish to confuse or to 'lead on' in any way, so feel it best to just keep it simple by being silent rather than getting into a series of polite replies...anyway thanks and good luck. 

C from New York

PHYSICAL ATTRACTION & COMPATIBLITY are key for me – As it should be with everyone I hope.
I read all messages that are sent to me and read the sender's profile.
If I don't respond it is because I do not believe I am a match for one of those two reasons listed previously.

Philosophy - Pursuing Happiness

Think Outside The Box

Ever read something, heard something or had a thought enter your mind for you to disregard as too ridiculous to be true, only to find years later you are drawn to that very idea?

For thousands of years man has been evolving and thinking.  He has been passing on weird and wonderful thoughts that our personal fabric of life has us accepting, disregarding or yearning to know more about.

Being taught about the concept of reincarnation as a school-child intrigued me, but it was not a philosophy I could absorb and take into my very being.  Yet now I am happy to acknowledge previous lives and am determined, similarly like Hindus and Buddhists, to escape that very cycle of rebirth.  Within a year of my eldest daughter's birth I watched her commune with the unseen and within months of the birth of my youngest daughter I came to believe, from observing unlearned behaviour, she was an old soul.  Interestingly these two children (out of five) were unplanned.  


It may appear as though I lean towards Eastern philosophy.  In fact I  have begun to embrace both Eastern and Western thought, just as I embrace emotion and rationale (seen generally as feminine and masculine traits respectively), ego and higher self,  and physical and the metaphysical realities.  My belief takes a dualism approach (a state of two parts) which, through balance, leads to monism (a state of "oneness", of unity, of interconnectedness).  

Let us take a peek at wisdom through the ages and across the continents.  In this chapter we are looking at:

Pursuing Happiness

Many philosophers discuss the idea of hedonism, their ideas vary and consequently result in different types.  Socrates (c.469-399BC) states (through Plato c.429-347BC) that we are all hedonists: aspiring to maximise our pleasure and minimise our pain.  He saw pleasure as good and pain as bad.  In his view this is not hedonism in the sense of pleasure for one at the expense of others, or an indulgence of immediate pleasures without considering long term consequences.  In fact it is the opposite as Socrates believed that via knowledge we could be both virtuous and happy, and that bad is only committed through ignorance.  He publicly encouraged people to regularly scrutinise their lives philosophically. 


Moving on to the not-so-distant past we have Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) advocating correct moral behaviour through collective happiness.  Quoting from the above link: Bentham’s greatest happiness principle states that actions are immoral if they are not the action that appears to maximise the happiness of all the people likely to be affected.  His main slant for measuring pleasure for the individual was through the aspect of pleasure's intensity, duration and quantity.  The quality of the source of the pleasure was largely ignored due to its subjective nature, this is shown in Hayden's "You Kant Make It Up" example of Dan Brown (highly successful present day author) versus William Shakespeare (literary legend).  Bentham's student John Stuart Mill (1806-1873), however, argued for the quality aspect of pleasure.  He differentiated quality into lower and higher pleasures: lower pleasures which satisfy our basic physical needs being the animals we are (such as food and sex - and, a note from your Devi: sometimes enjoyably coupled) and higher pleasures, assumed as uniquely human, which satisfy our minds, (such as enjoyment of the opera, poetry, art, friendship and virtuousness).  This view had been brought about due to Mill suffering a period of mental illness as a young man.  He believed it was through the higher pleasure of reading poetry by William Wordsworth that lifted the depression.

For those of you interested in mental health issues, in particular depression, there are biological, psychological and social aspects of the condition.  Depression nowadays is treated (or should be) according to all these factors.  The NHS (British National Health Service) can prescribe medications and refer to talking therapies; exercise, proper nutrition and sleep hygiene are all encouraged; and, a sufferer's support networks should be looked into.  Mill would actually have benefited from a combination of his "higher and lower pleasures". As he discovered, occupying the mind is incredibly beneficial, but dependent upon the severity of the depression, this may not be an immediate possibility.

Mill was not the first philosopher to advocate higher pleasures.  Epicurus (341-270BC) placed greater value on intellectual pleasure over and above physical pleasure.  Happiness, in his view, was measured by the absence of pain (especially mental), the moderation of physical desires and the cultivation of friendships.  He took a broad look at life and recognised that some instantaneous pleasure pursuits later developed into pain (such as a heavy consumption of alcohol or food) and therefore should be avoided.  Having suffered much ill-health Epicurus rationalised that experiencing physical pain was a lesser evil than experiencing mental anguish because physical pain was of the present whereas mental anguish could revile time in the form of past hauntings, present psychological trauma and fear of the future.  


Not all hedonism emerges overtly.  Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679) has suggested that benevolent acts are not as selfless as they first seem.  In fact they too can be hedonistic for they meet the desires and needs of such charitable people.  These acts are grounded in self-interest. You may like to note this can be linked to the article of co-dependence on my Bibliography page if benevolence requires reward/praise/affirmation in its hedonistic pursuit.  On the opposite side of this paradoxical coin Ayn Rand (1905-1982) described selfishness as a virtue.  She (yes finally a female voice in this male dominated area) subscribed to the egoist* view of the right to pursue one's own happiness, motivated by one's own rational interests and desires.  Ayn was not interested in desires driven by whims or emotions, but desires through the faculty of reasoning.  


When one acts according to their own interests and desires, this selfishness is only negative when it incurs the sacrifice of others to the self.  In some small way in the world of dating we can infer the negative connotation from profiles of people stating something on the lines of "I want someone to make me happy".  No person can make another happy, it has to come from within.  We have to take the responsibility of our own happiness.

*Egoism is not to be confused with egotism - the self-inflating of one's own importance.

According to Siddhartha Gautama (b.6th century BC), known as The (supreme) Buddha, nothing is permanent and as such all is transitory:  pleasure may lead to pain, success may lead to failure or dissatisfaction, and life leads to death (which then leads to rebirth). Happiness is only a fleeting state as life is suffering.  We have no control over these things but we can learn to control how our mind reacts*.  Gautama composed his Eightfold Path as the route to end all suffering (including the cycle of rebirth) with the attainment of Nirvana.  This lifestyle choice, even even two and a half millennia later, can assist the integrated development of knowledge, and moral and emotional behaviours.


*I learned many years ago that you cannot change the past but you can change how it affects your present.  A few years ago I attended several meditation sessions at my local Buddhist centre.  It is something I would happily do regularly should my work pattern ever permit it.  All faiths are welcome.  In a world which is fast-paced and often chaotic, this is a haven of tranquillity. 

So what is the message here?

I am of the opinion it is perfectly acceptable to have hedonistic beliefs, ie: to seek pleasure for ourselves with the minimum amount of pain.  Like Epicurus I would suggest you look at the bigger picture and hence consider future consequences.  A lifestyle of vice such as gluttony or promiscuity may initially be fun, but eventually could have severe health implications.  I do not believe Socrates was wrong when he declared we are all hedonists (even those amongst us who are altruistic and/or benevolent).  However,  since we are not all as virtuous as Socrates would have us believe (even after acquiring knowledge), consideration should be given to the way pleasure is sought.  My advice would be to seek pleasure for ourselves but where we may also achieve pleasure for others, at the minimum of expense to all concerned.  Although immeasurable this can magnify or prolong our pleasure; consider when you have made someone laugh or prevented them from feeling pain, did you not notice your pleasure receptors swell?


Let us put a modern twist on things: you are in a marriage where sex is but a distant memory.  Your relationship with your partner is more like a business relationship: you both deal with the financial and household chores and are even polite over breakfast, but gone are the days of bodice-ripping.  You join a dating site, one which endorses intimate encounters - you desire the pleasure of another person's body upon yours.  The instant pleasures are obvious should you successfully meet a like-minded person, but are you up for the possible long-term consequences?  Consequences such as a traumatic end to the marriage, disputes over child arrangements, and disruption of relationships with close friends and extended family.  Could you not have sought pleasure through the seduction of your own partner, seeking what once thrilled the pair of you?  If the marriage cannot be revitalised then communicate with your partner as to whether it has any value continuing.  Your partner may actually surprise you in also wanting the release from the marital bond, hence seeking numerous intimate encounters becomes an option without the burden of deceit. Quite clearly this latter action follows the premise of: seek pleasure for ourselves but where we may also achieve pleasure for others, at the minimum of expense to all concerned.